NO! (Don't shoot me in the face! The Punisher Topic)

[Rollo Tomassi]

That's the thing(pardon the pun). All these writers and guys like Brevoort and Alonso get hung up on the fact that the Punisher exists in the same Universe as the Avengers and the FF. They're all "oh god we have to address that at some point." WHY? Why do you have to address it? The Punisher managed to have three ongoing series in the 80s and 90s without hardly ever interacting with any Avengers or any SuperPowers. Its not imperative that your precious goddamn Avengers show up in every single goddamn Marvel title just because they've got a goddamn movie coming out next year and Joe Quesada thinks Brian Bendis' balls taste like heaven. I personally think guys like Tony Stark and Steve Rogers are too self involved to give a shit if somebody like Frank Castle is out playing vigilante. If they truly cared about murderers why don't they set up camp in D.C. or Detroit or Dallas and get their murder rates under control? Because they don't give a shit thats why. Castle manages to avoid getting caught by the entire NYPD on a daily basis. How hard is it to avoid a couple nancies in tights as well?

[Diabolical]

How hard is it to avoid a couple nancies in tights as well?

That was another thing I loved about Ennis' run - if any supers did appear, Frank made them all look like candy-ass bitches they are. He made Frank smart enough to outwit the supers because he knows how full of themselves they are.

Examples:

There is an early Ennis issue where Frank knows Daredevil is gonna stomp his ass in a fistfight, so Frank takes advantage of DD's heightened senses and triggers an ultrasonic blast that overloads DD and knocks him out. When DD wakes up, he's tied up with a gun strapped to his hand and pointed at Frank. Frank tells DD that he is going to shoot a criminal that recently beat the justice system and if DD wants to stop him, all he has to do is pull trigger and kill Frank, fucking with Dardevil's morals: allow a murder to happen or become a murderer himself.

Or using an unconscious Spider-man as a human shield against the Russian's blows until he can figure a way to stop him.

Then there's the whole shotgun to Logan's nuts and face since he knows it'll all grow back, then he park a steamroller on Logan and walks away.

Or the entire Confederacy of Dunces arc, which makes DD, Spidey, Logan and Hulk all look stupid.

[Rollo Tomassi]

I always thought it was out of character that Logan would have issues with Frank killing scumbags. Logan's bodycount is WAY higher than Frank's.

[anarky]

The first arc of War Zone is still one of the best. I don't care what anyone says about Dixon, the man is an arteeste when it comes to writing action.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

Not definitive, but this Upcoming "War" Event might be Punisher related.

If so, that'll be bitchin'. Punisher fucks up the Avengers? Awesome sauce.

[Diabolical]

That could be awesome. With the gun to Spidey's head and the bullet holes in Iron Man's dome, it might not be too much of a stretch to imagine Frank is involved.

[anarky]

Frank finally snaps? The Avengers decide he's way too loose a cannon?

I'm not against it, but I'm trying to guess the spark that sets it off. Keeping in mind that he seems to have always been on decent terms with Wolverine and Luke Cage and he idolizes Cap, it's got to be big. Unless Spidey and Daredevil are exerting more influence, since they both hate his guts.

[anarky]

Also, the number of folks in the discussion thread (for the page Rollo linked to) who seem to think that's a tentacle and not a gun is either hilarious or pathetic, I'm not sure which.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

Honestly, at first glance I thought it was Doc Ock's tentacle also. But it took me about 1.5 seconds to realize it was a gun barrel. I certainly wouldn't have taken the time to post in a forum that I thought it was Doc Ock.

[Diabolical]

War Zone starts in October.
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/06/2 ... z1zDlDOJ22

[RoIIo Tomassi]

Some have speculated this is a relaunch/sales boost of the current book. I tend to agree with that. The current market can't support 2 Punisher titles and the book that's out now has very low sales numbers. I've been waiting for them to announce its cancelation, honestly. This is their way of showing faith in Rucka by giving him a chance to tell his story. And tossing the $600M Avengers in the book might add a few readers. Is it a sales gimmick? Yes. Does it look balls out fantastic? Hell yeah.
When I frequented the WUMB, we played a game called "4 corners" in which somebody would name 4 superheroes and/or villains. These 4 characters get dropped into the 4 corners of Manhattan. And then everyone would fanboy up about who is last man standing(sort of like Super Hero Hunger Games, except we were playing it way before anybody had heard of HG).
If Castle was in the mix, I'd almost always pick him.

[Diabolical]

Some have speculated this is a relaunch/sales boost of the current book. I tend to agree with that. The current market can't support 2 Punisher titles and the book that's out now has very low sales numbers. I've been waiting for them to announce its cancelation, honestly. This is their way of showing faith in Rucka by giving him a chance to tell his story. And tossing the $600M Avengers in the book might add a few readers. Is it a sales gimmick? Yes. Does it look balls out fantastic? Hell yeah.

I had no idea The Punisher's sales were low. Too bad. Its easily the best 616 Punisher in years, Rucka is nailing it, IMO.
I just hope War Zone lives up to these teasers and isn't just a gimmick.

[jjreason]

I hereby predict that (like every other recent Marvel mega-crossover) there will be some wicked art, half-decent story telling, and (most of all) NOTHING WILL FUCKING CHANGE AS A RESULT OF IT BECAUSE MARVEL IS BORING AS FUCK AND SCARED TO CHANGE ANYTHING FOR FEAR OF HARMING A FEATHER ON THE GOLDEN GOOSE.

These days I would rather sit in a corner by myself and look out the window as opposed to reading a new Marvel comic. So why am I still buying them? Anyone?

[RoIIo Tomassi]

You can't paint all of Marvel's books with the same brush. Journey into Mystery is fucking fantastic. Dan Slott's Spider-Man is the best the book has been in years. Hickman's FF/F4 run is epic. Waid has revitalized Daredevil. And obviously we're all gushing about Rucka's Punisher.

Back to the Punisher's low sales. Yeah, Punisher is one of several books "on the bubble" hovering around 20,000. The only ongoing books lower on the list are/were Thunderbolts(which got rebranded as Dark Avengers) and Hulk(which is rumored to get rebranded as Agents of SMASH). The Cap team up book is down there, as is Journey into Mystery(:( It's Marvel's best title hands down right now. It'll be a Fucking travesty if it gets canned). X-Factor and New Mutants are just above that around 24/25,000. X-Factor for some reason gets a pass because it's sales are low, but they've leveled off and are consistent. I imagine New Mutants will get rebranded with an 'X' in its title during the next X shakeup.
Defenders, Venom, Winter Soldier, Avengers Academy, Deadpool, and Scarlet Spider are doing marginally better. The only reason they're "safe" with 25-30,000 sales is that so many books are doing worse than them. The lower selling X-Titles like Astonishing and Pointless are down here as well(Astonishing got a Gay Wedding sales bump, but usually it's around 30k).
And then even Marvel's "Core" books like Iron Man, Thor, Cap, FF, Wolverine, etc aren't doing much hotter. They're all in the 30-40,000 range.
Which is scary to think about how close to fucking death the entire industry is. I imagine if every retailer ordered like 3 extra copies of Punisher or JiM every month, they'd be top 20 sellers. That's how close it is between "Hot" and "Canceled".

[anarky]

They need to get that $600 million in tickets to translate into people buying comics.

But they act as if they simply don't care.