The Fate of Batman

[Tom Foolery]

Batman already had flaws that worked for him. He was too focused, too serious, and sucked at personal relationships. Even with those closest to him like Alfred and Dick.
No need to add flaws like he's a stupid dipshit who sucks at fighting. That seems perpindicular to what Batman is all about.

[anarky]

Some dude stole your name at CBR, Rollo.

What fucktarded idea was it to cut the Joker's face off, then just tape it on? Seriously, this is stupid.

And, with all due respect to Capullo as a talented comic drawer, get your fucking panties out of a bunch. How did you think your Joker re-design of him reattaching his face shittily was some huge reveal? I half figured it out months ago. They pretty much sent everyone in America a card in the mail that telegraphed what it was going to be.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

You've heard the maxim 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'?
There was nothing wrong with the Joker's iconic image that required a facebelt to make him scary.
Next they're going to cut off his hands and replace them with spatulas...so the terror can REALLY begin.

[anarky]

Spatulas? No. Flyswatters!!!

So few writers in any medium truly "get" the Joker, and he should be pretty damned easy to get. He's always toned down and ridiculous (in fairness, that's usually the fault of higher-ups wanting a younger tone to an appearance), or they try to get too serious with him and focus on how crazy he is. He's not Jigsaw. True, he probably has a higher body count than any other fictional character without superpowers or an army to command, but that's not his reason for being.

Once again, I must refer to Batman: The Animated Series as being definitive. Joker is equal parts homicidal and funny. People tend to cringe at the final chapter of "A Death in the Family" now because it borders on politically incorrect, but, fuck, Joker addressing the UN about the Iranian Quraci government's insanity and love of fish right after bludgeoning Jason Todd to death is classic Joker in the best sense.

Even for all his grimness, and how dark The Killing Joke was, Alan Moore still got it right.


Hell, even Heath Ledger's non-Joker was more Joker than most modern writers go for.

[anarky]

Sorry for the double post, Grimlock.

Wait, no I'm not. Suck my fat Dick Throbincok-Johnson.

The people complaining that Robot 6 spoiled this are just too much. Joker got face cut off. Joker can't be a bare skull; there are already enough of those running around. Joker must maintain rictus. Being one of the most-wanted criminals on Earth, Joker must do this himself or on the cheap. Staples or duct tape are about all that makes sense. Seriously, this is not a fucking mystery. This is like a Batman fanatic reading for months that Aaron Eckhardt is playing the DA, as well as Two-Face, then happening upon an article and getting pissed that the article spoiled that he was going to be Harvey Dent.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

I've always felt the best way to portray the Joker is that even he doesn't know whether he's gonna pull a harmless prank or kill everybody in the room until right before he does it. And he finds either equally hilarious. Imagine the things that make you laugh the hardest in this world. That's how Joker feels about everything. Including mass murder. He laughs at murder like you laugh at Three Stooges. They're the same thing to him. He's incapable of differentiating between them. And everything is funny to him. So when he gets the idea to put a Troop of Cub Scouts into a wood chipper, that's hilarious and he just goes about making it happen. The idea that it's horrific doesn't cross his mind. A bullet in his best henchman's skull? Hilarious. Cupcakes without frosting? Equally hilarious.
I think even his "hatred" of Batman is more of a "ha ha its fun to match wits with Bat-head". I'm pretty sure Joker knows Batman's secret ID and just doesn't care. His "beef" is with Batman and Bruce isn't part of the game.

[anarky]

Exactly.

Another truly great Joker moment is in the BTAS episode "The Man Who Killed Batman." Joker holds this eulogy for Batman, tries to kill the guy he thinks is responsible, forbids Harley from cracking jokes at this somber moment... then immediately grins and says something like, "Who's up for pizza?"

Part of Joker's insanity is that, like you said, murder is just another joke to him. It might be funny to him, but pantsing you might be just as funny depending on his mood.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

Here's a perfect line from the Arkham Asylum game, which my son is currently replaying. Joker is on the P.A. System after taking over and just saying random stuff throughout the game.
"Welcome to Joker Asylum. I only have one rule here and one rule only. The penalty for breaking the rule is death. And you wanna know the best part about the rule? It's a secret!" then he starts cackling.
And that's just like a random background line that he says while you're exploring the Island. There are hundreds just like it. Classic.

[Diabolical]

When it comes to Joker's relationship with Batman, I like the idea that has been brought up a few times over the years, including The Dark Knight and B:TAS, where Joker doesn't want to kill Batman. His life has no meaning without Batman.
As he says in TDK, "No, I don't to kill you. You complete me." And later, "We are destined to do this dance forever."

They blew his appearance while Dick was in the costume, but I would've loved to see him doing his typical schtick until he comes face-to-face with Dick. Instantly realizing he ain't the real Batman (possibly even realizing its Nightwing/original Rogin), and hhe just gives up his plot and walks away dejected and mumbling about waiting until the real Batman returns.

[anarky]

They got that right with AzBats. IIRC, Joker wanted nothing to do with him.

[Diabolical]

“Without Batman, crime has no punchline.”- Joker, B:TAS

[RoIIo Tomassi]

I thought Joker and DickBat crossed paths and Joker knew he was Robin. Didn't it happen in the first Batman & Robin series by Morrison?

[Diabolical]

Possibly. I read it once. All I remember is Damian trying to kill Joker or something.

[anarky]

IIRC, when Dick was Batman the previous time--I mean, the only time--Gordon recognized him as Nightwing. He didn't have a run-in with Joker.

I think he pulled some stunt when Jean-Paul was Batman, not knowing it wasn't Bruce, then refused to really do anything except run away when he realized it was a "pretender" Batman.

I've always wondered, since (when properly portrayed) the Joker is one of the most intelligent humans in the DCU (which is saying quite a bit), if he attacked Barbara not so much to get at Jim and Batman, but because he knew she'd been Batgirl but wasn't playing the game anymore, so to speak. He obviously would've known that Jason wasn't Dick; anyone with any sense (like Tim explicitly stated) would recognize that Robin went to New York and was older, then suddenly a younger Robin is in Gotham. Plus they had very different personalities, and likely voices, if not any other physical attributes. I wonder if he ever would've killed Dick. I doubt it. He's proven he can come up with an inescapable trap if he wants, he just rarely did. I think he knows who everyone involved is (even if he'll never admit it to anyone), and just didn't respect Jason because he was an arrogant punk.

I wonder, honestly, if Grant (the first name one) would ever have figured that aspect out. Joker should know Batman well enough to pick up immediately on something different and identify Damian as his son, even if absolutely no one else on Earth would be able to. I think he was too busy with his metaphysical "reinventing himself every morning" mumbo-jumbo.

[RoIIo Tomassi]

Finally got to read the Gates of Gotham mini series. I had the last four issues, but didn't find the first issue until much later. Well, tonight i dug all the issues out of the different boxes and read it.

I enjoyed how it showcased all of Bruce's children, Dick as Batman, Tim as Red Robin, Cassie as BlackBat, and Damian as Robin(Jason couldn't make it, but is even officially adopted like the others?). All working a mystery that reaches back to the beginnings of Gotham City. Scott Snyder weaves the flashbacks to the 1800s in with the modern story so we get an almost history lesson of the fictitious city. And it doesn't contradict any of the earlier "history" of Cyrus Pinkney, etc and expanded on the legacies of the Waynes, Cobblepots, Elliots, and Kanes.

It's a damn shame Harras, Johns, Nelson and Didio decided it was all shit and wiped their ass with it before flushing it all down the toilet.
Now Gotham has been an assassin training ground for a thousand years or some stupid inane shit. Arrrgh!!! Nutkicks for all of you! Even Nelson. I'm sure she's got balls too.