the vynsane asylum

I thought we had a topic on this, but all I found was this semi-conversation.

So what are the essential, must-have Batman stories that could comprise a real history of the Dark Knight?

Below is a start, in my best chronological order (with character origins in parenthesis).
I may be missing a few key stories, so feel free to correct/add.

Year One (Batman, Gordon, Catwoman)
The Long Halloween (Harvey Dent/Two-Face, Holiday)
Dark Victory (Robin?)
Dick's exit as Robin/intro as Nightwing
Jason's intro as Robin
A Death in the Family
The Killing Joke (Joker...maybe)
Tim's intro as Robin (Batman #457)
The Sword of Azrael (Azrael, duh)
Knightfall trilogy/saga (Bane)
Mad Love (Harley Quinn)
Joker - which could easily be moved around or deleted from this list
Hush (Hush, duh again)
The Dark Knight Returns

These need to be place somewhere in the timeline:
From what I understand, Arkham Asylum should probably go in there somewhere, as well as the origins/intros of the major villains, although I'm not sure if any key stories/great versions of the origins of many of the Batman's rogues/allies have been told.
Shadow of the Bat #1-4 (Victor Zsasz)
Batman #608-609 (Anarky)

Barbara Gordon/Batgirl, Alfred, Mr. Freeze, Poisin Ivy, Penguin, Mad Hatter, Ventriloquist, Killer Croc, Scarecrow, Ra's and Talia Al Ghul, Red Hood/Jason Todd, etc.





Note: If the Grant/Breyfogle stuff had been collected most of it would be on this list for sure.

My daughter wants a drink of water at 2:45. I'm up. Don't want to be.

I'm going to start a grand tradition of making changes to previous posts in red. I can do more and worry more about format consistency when I'm more awake.

This is the portion that's in order so far:

Year One (Batman, Gordon, Catwoman)
Shaman
Gothic
The Long Halloween (Harvey Dent/Two-Face, Holiday)

Year Two
Eye of the Beholder (Batman Annual 14, a Two-Face origin that seems to span at least several months)
Dark Victory (Robin?)
Dick's exit as Robin/intro as Nightwing
The Killing Joke[/b] (Joker...maybe) -- I figure the frame has to be in this section, with the flashbacks in late Year One
Jason's intro as Robin
A Death in the Family
Year Three (technically, this sounds like it should be earlier, but it's done in flashback)
A Lonely Place of Dying
The Mud Pack (Detective 604-607)
Anarky in Gotham City (Detective #608-609 (Anarky)) (this stretch of Grant/Breyfogle stories falls just before or just after Year Three/ALPOD -- I put it after because Batman's attitude doesn't seem suicidal)


Tim's intro as Robin (Batman #457)
The Sword of Azrael (Azrael, duh)
Knightfall trilogy/saga (Bane)
Mad Love (Harley Quinn)
Joker - which could easily be moved around or deleted from this list
Hush (Hush, duh again)
The Dark Knight Returns

These need to be place somewhere in the timeline:
From what I understand, Arkham Asylum should probably go in there somewhere, as well as the origins/intros of the major villains, although I'm not sure if any key stories/great versions of the origins of many of the Batman's rogues/allies have been told.
Shadow of the Bat #1-4 (Victor Zsasz)

Barbara Gordon/Batgirl, Alfred, Mr. Freeze, Poisin Ivy, Penguin, Mad Hatter, Ventriloquist, Killer Croc, Scarecrow, Ra's and Talia Al Ghul, Red Hood/Jason Todd, etc.





Note: If the Grant/Breyfogle stuff had been collected most of it would be on this list for sure.[/quote]

I've always been under the impression that Year Two and Year Three were fairly shitty. No?

Eye of the Beholder - why 2 Two Face origins? The Long Halloween is pretty complete and awesome.

There are two issues of Batman I forgot, where Joker first returned for the first time after A Death in the Family, and Batman was afraid of what he would do to Joker when he caught him. Not sure of the issue #s. I just remember the badass covers.

"The Many Deaths of the Batman" by John Byrne and Jim Aparo is a really great Batman story. Somebody is tracking down all the people Bruce trained with and killing them and leaving their bodies in Batman costumes.

The Contagion/Cataclysm/No Man's Land cycle is epic in terms of being part of Batman's "history". No Man's Land is pretty much Arkham City. Except they thought of it 15 years earlier.

"The Man Who Laughs" is a great "First Joker Meeting" story. Batman rally didn't understand what he was dealing with so he's always back pedaling in terms of dealing with J's maniacalness.

The Two-Face origin in the annual was years before The Long Halloween. Even with The Long Halloween (and I think there's a "Two-Face: Year One" miniseries I haven't read), it's pretty untouchable. The best part is the end: everyone thinks Havey is cured, but he tears off half his own face. Pretty dark for the 80s, but it addressed why, in a world with such awesome technology, they couldn't just fix his face--because he undoes it himself.

Penguin's origin was best told in the Secret Origins Special from 89 or so.

I don't remember Year Two that well, but don't remember hating it. Year Three was awesome. There was one arc (maybe two short ones) between A Death in the Family and Year Three, which led directly into A Lonely Place of Dying. Sort a quick turnaround for a new Robin, now that I think about it, but it was a cool linear storyline. Year Three was told in the present, with Tony Zucco about to be released from jail, and Dick Grayson mostly remembering the events that led to him becoming Robin. Meanwhile, Batman is going insane with guilt over Jason, and Tim Drake is first introduced (I might be confusing the events of it and ALPOD, but I believe this is where Tim first confronts Dick about becoming Robin again). But, really, Marv Wolfman on Batman. It can't be bad.

I thought Cataclysm/Aftermath/Road to No Man's Land/No Man's Land (and I think one other storyline immediately after) was absolutely amazing, though it looks in theory to be a huge chunk of shit. My only real issue with it is that everyone sort of forgot the city was like Mad Max on acid for an entire year.

If you're including the Knightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend trilogy, you need to throw in Venom (the introduction of Venom), Vengeance of Bane, and Prelude to Knightfall. Also Prodigal. You could easily skip Vengeance of Bane II, which was awesome and set up a new potential direction for Bane, but it was abandoned almost immediately.

Diabolical wrote:There are two issues of Batman I forgot, where Joker first returned for the first time after A Death in the Family, and Batman was afraid of what he would do to Joker when he caught him. Not sure of the issue #s. I just remember the badass covers.

450 and 451. There was an issue of Detective that was a sorta crossover (617), but it wasn't like a linear story or anything, IIRC.

Looks like Rollo posted while I was typing, and echoed the Cataclysm supercrossover. And I'll, in turn, echo The Many Deaths of Batman.

Which reminds me of a great "no longer in continuity" story that sums up everything to that point: 1980s Untold Legend of the Batman.

Also, the first post-crisis World's Finest miniseries (and maybe the second one as well, I don't recall) was amazing.

Son of the Demon is indispensable, though Bruce's son is still an infant despite what Grant Morrison wants you to think.

Heh. The No Man's Land stuff gets even wonkier, when you try to shoehorn it into the DcnU "5 Year Plan". It must've happened somewhere in year 3 after Dick was Robin for two weeks, then Jason became Robin for a weekend before getting killed by Joker and then Tim becoming Robin for seven days...

Oh, the story from Detective 598-600 was good. I love the conversation Jim Gordon had with Bruce Wayne at the end. Although, they never outright say it, it heavily implies Jim isn't stupid and knows who Batman is. Plus, if you have those issues, they have a bunch of anecdotes from all kinds of writers and artists and editors reflecting on what Batman means to them. It's really cool.

Rollo Tomassi wrote:Oh, the story from Detective 598-600 was good. I love the conversation Jim Gordon had with Bruce Wayne at the end. Although, they never outright say it, it heavily implies Jim isn't stupid and knows who Batman is. Plus, if you have those issues, they have a bunch of anecdotes from all kinds of writers and artists and editors reflecting on what Batman means to them. It's really cool.

Those came immediately before I started collecting, and were really pricey back then for some reason. What you said reminds me of the scene in No Man's Land that implies the same thing.

So you don't have those issues? If I see them at any of those dealer shows, I'll grab them for you. There's a show next Saturday in Iowa City which I'm going to attend provided the snow allows it.

Added.
I'm going to start a grand tradition of making changes to previous posts in red. I can do more and worry more about format consistency when I'm more awake.
It's been awhile since I read Shaman and Gothic, so I'm not sure of the order of those, but I know Monster Men and Mad Monk also take place between Y1 and TLH.

This is the portion that's in order so far:

Year One (Batman, Gordon, Catwoman)
Batman and the Monster Men
Batman and the Mad Monk
Shaman
The Long Halloween (Harvey Dent/Two-Face, Holiday)

Year Two
Eye of the Beholder (Batman Annual 14, a Two-Face origin that seems to span at least several months)
Dark Victory (Robin?)
Dick's exit as Robin/intro as Nightwing
The Killing Joke (Joker...maybe) -- I figure the frame has to be in this section, with the flashbacks in late Year One
Jason's intro as Robin
A Death in the Family
Year Three (technically, this sounds like it should be earlier, but it's done in flashback)
A Lonely Place of Dying
The Mud Pack (Detective 604-607)
Anarky in Gotham City (Detective #608-609 (Anarky)) (this stretch of Grant/Breyfogle stories falls just before or just after Year Three/ALPOD -- I put it after because Batman's attitude doesn't seem suicidal)


Tim's intro as Robin (Batman #457)
The Sword of Azrael (Azrael, duh)
Knightfall trilogy/saga (Bane)
Mad Love (Harley Quinn)
Joker - which could easily be moved around or deleted from this list
Hush (Hush, duh again)
The Dark Knight Returns

These need to be place somewhere in the timeline:
From what I understand, Arkham Asylum should probably go in there somewhere, as well as the origins/intros of the major villains, although I'm not sure if any key stories/great versions of the origins of many of the Batman's rogues/allies have been told.
Shadow of the Bat #1-4 (Victor Zsasz)

Barbara Gordon/Batgirl, Alfred, Mr. Freeze, Poisin Ivy, Penguin, Mad Hatter, Ventriloquist, Killer Croc, Scarecrow, Ra's and Talia Al Ghul, Red Hood/Jason Todd, etc.





Note: If the Grant/Breyfogle stuff had been collected most of it would be on this list for sure.[/quote][/quote]

It didn't bother me at the time, since I didn't realize it (coming in with A Lonely Place of Dying, getting Year Three in back issues almost immediately, and reading the trade of A Death in the Family), but Tim must be insane in Year Three.

He's observed Batman on a self-destructive course and wants to stop it. Um, how? I don't mean how does he intend to stop it, but how did he notice?

Batman was never a high-profile sort of fellow. Jason died in #428. There was ONE short story arc in Batman between ADITF and Y3. He demonstrated no self-destructive tendencies in that story that I can recall. There were none in Detective.

Regardless of his brains and powers of observation, how the fuck did this kid figure out Batman was suicidal?

Found an interesting website that puts things in order. Obviously, he deviates from the Year One/Two/Three timeline. But his rationale for doing so is well documented. And his notes and reasons about what's 'canon' and what isn't are intersting as well.

At the very least, he gives a decent framework and starting point for reading. I got up through "year six" and enjoyed his writing and ideas. He's obviously put a lot of thought into the website.

The Real Batman Chronology Project