The Fate of Batman

[vynsane]

i'm mainly just teasing, it just fits the pattern of complaint about the status quo/complaint about shake up of status quo. spider-man is getting the same treatment, it's also in the 'complaint about shake up' side of the pendulum.

[anarky]

Spider-Man's a whole 'nother ballgame. When the EIC says no kids can sympathize with married Spidey (and he's been married almost half the time he's been in existence), but divorce would age him, and they don't want to kill Mary Jane, so he strikes a deal with the devil (surrogate) to give up his marriage and somehow pop back to about 1975 in his story, so he's better for kids, but then the stories immediately get too dark for kids... that's just looney. :p

Morrison at least can tell a good story when he's on a leash. Quesada draws pretty pictures. I doubt Morrison can draw, and I've seen far more evidence that Quesada can't write than that he can.

[Rollo Tomassi]

A topic at another site got us discussing that Batman(Grayson) lost his virginity to Starfire, which made me wonder who Bruce had lost it to and if that story had ever been written.

So I googled 'bruce wayne's virginity'. And of course a fanfiction story about Bruce getting buttfucked by Robocop pops up. And then after they go fight hippie vegetarian zombies.

So yeah. That's been my day so far.

[anarky]

One thing is certain: if you're ever bored and want a laugh, pull up the message board on CBR and read the arguments there. Either Morrison is God or he's Satan; there's no in-between. There's also no in-between on whether Batman stories should be 1960s Adam West or Frank Miller's "goddamn Batman"--never mind that the greatest runs (IMHO) have always been a mix, ust slightly beyond the realm of probability, and always involving the totally grounded Batman responding to weird shit like a normal person would. And the logic the forumites use is so convoluted, it's funny in and of itself.

Personally, I just think he's a druggie who needs a shorter leash. He's great when he's great, and shit when he's shit.

And, yes, I really do have a problem with an acknowledged user of hard drugs writing stories about a CRIMEFIGHTER that kids look up to. Sure, they're probably all doing drugs, but Morrison's the only one I know of who brags about it publicly and basically admits his ideas are the result of drug-fueled hallucinations.

On a slightly different note, the Morrison run seems to be popular with the majority of comics readers, all ten thousand of them. But how do you reckon this sort of stuff would go over with the general public?

[Rollo Tomassi]

One of the reasons I don't post nonstop on CBR is that there're TOO many voices. Any insight or opinion you might have gets lost in the tidal wave of clutter. It's only saving grace is that compared to other popculture forums like AICN, its comparitively clean. There's the occasional troll there, but at AICN its ALL trolls. Who only know the f-bomb apparently.

Personally, I just think he's a druggie who needs a shorter leash. He's great when he's great, and shit when he's shit.

Agreed. After the clusterfuck of Final Crisis, I take everything he does now as it comes. Sometimes I'm surprised. Most of the time I'm disappointed or downright

On a slightly different note, the Morrison run seems to be popular with the majority of comics readers, all ten thousand of them. But how do you reckon this sort of stuff would go over with the general public?

It's hard to know. ComicBook readers are so insulated in their own little world. I think most people (general public) would be shocked at the amount of violence, sexual innuendo, and profanity in modern comics. I thnk they have this idea of what it was like in the 60s thru the 80s and reading a comic where Thor brags about buttfucking Invisible Woman while Captain America calls everybody a bitch and Wolverine yanks somebodies spine out of their ass would make them stop breathing. Thank you Mark Millar.

[anarky]

Why are there two Jokers in the audience (the Dick Sprang version in the back, and the Animated version seated with Harley a few rows up)? Possibly three, depending upon who's the Red Hood. Or more; the one who speaks looks like the Brian Bolland version from The Killing Joke.

And are there three Dick Graysons? There are definitely two; one as Robin (who speaks) and one as Nightwing (back row). But he starts the funeral off in a tuxedo. It could be one of the other two, or someone unique; it's tough to tell with the crowd shots.

Speaking of Robins, is it just me, or is there a shortage. The one(s) who spoke is (are) definitely Dick, and no one else would be Nightwing. There's the Red Hood, who could be Jason, though I doubt it. I saw one other kid who might be a Robin, wearing a tux. Unless that short guy who arrived with R'as al Ghul was supposed to be Damian.

I'm asking because I know there has to be some significance; Gaiman likely hand-picked everyone and specified where they were to be drawn. He's too cerebral and controlling of his stories to just have a random sampling of characters left up to Kubert. Multiple Jokers and Dicks seems odd, no matter how important they are to Batman, when there's only one of everyone else, including Alfred, and they're set in a particular era (GA Catwoman & Batwoman, 1950s Robin, 1960s Riddler).

Any of you thought about this?

[Rollo Tomassi]

Wherein it wasn't an 'in continuity' story and more of a 'stream of consciousness/fever dream/ Gaiman dropped some shrooms before sitting down at the PC' story.

[anarky]

I know it's not in continuity, but Gaiman is generally pretty heavy on symbolism. There's a meaning behind the multiple Jokers and Dick Graysons; I just can't figure it out. Like I said, it's not just their importance to Batman, since there's only one Alfred, and even only one wheelchair-bound Barbara (rather than Batgirl).

And is there a meaning to characters like Azrael, Superman, and Clayface delivering eulogies (though we don't actually see Az's), but never shown seated in the crowd scenes.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Does anyone know if they've told the story of the immediate aftermath of the Wayne's murder in great detail.
They've done the murder ad nauseum. And we've followed a young Bruce around the globe training with the best masters in several stories, as well as his early pre-Bat vigilante outings, but what about him between the deaths and leaving on his seven year trek.
I know they've done stories immediately afterward. This is primarily where the character of Dr. Leslie Tompkins comes from and they've also retconned Jim Gordon in as the kindly patrolman.
But what I'm talking about is the moment where he's sitting there thinking 'why did they die. Why was there nobody there to save them.' And from there coming to the decision that there is no such person. But there should be. And then making the solemn vow to be that person.
From that point he wouldve started studying if not preparing physically. I imagine he started studying the law. Maybe his fathers medical journals, etc.
I know he eventually heads off to college and drops out after taking what he knows from it, but there's a long time between being ten(or however old he was when they died) and going to college.
Has that story(or any part of that story) been told. And do you know where.

[anarky]

It was touched on very briefly in the early 80s 3-issue miniseries, "The Untold Legend of the Batman." Bruce is studying law and has an issue with the law vs. justice, IIRC. I'm pretty sure it mentions him deciding to be a cop, too. However, the whole thing is really short, like less than a single page. Keep in mind it's been about twenty years, so I may be wrong.

When they fire Morrison and bring in Alan Grant to replace him, maybe he can write that story.

[Rollo Tomassi]

That's what I thought. Its been touched on briefly here and there, like that famous early panel where Bruce is kneeling by his bed, tearfully vowing to avenge them. But its never been explored to its fullest potential. Its a fairly seminal moment in the mythology.

[jjreason]

He went away and studied to be a Jedi-Ninja with Qui Gon Jinn. Even I know that, tards.

[anarky]

I know this is old, but it does seem low. Really low. This is the first appearance of the Joker, generally regarded to be the best comic book villain and easily as iconic as Batman himself. Plus, it's also the first appearance of Catwoman, who's close behind the Joker on most people's lists of greatest villains.

Truthfully, for those two characters and the #1 status, I'd think it would fetch more than Detective #38 (the first Robin), and certainly more than #29, which seems pretty unremarkable and introduces no one of any note. Any idea why #29 is higher than #38? (Or #31 or #33, for that matter. #31 is also unremarkable. #33 is the first origin story and therefore the first appearances of Thomas and Martha Wayne, but, then again, how is that worth more than the first Robin?)

[Rollo Tomassi]

Just to put things in perspective, did you see someone paid $450k for a SINGLE PAGE of Frank Miller's original art from Dark Knight Returns?

Its a splashpage of the iconic image of Batman and Carrie Kelly leaping through the sky over Gotham. But still, nearly a half million for one page.

$40,000 REALLY feels like a steal now.

[jjreason]

Isn't batman #1 comprised of entirely reprinted material from Detective?