Questions about DC's relaunch

[anarky]

It appears that the general consensus is that Superman and Lois will no longer be married and Superman might be in a relationship with Wonder Woman Version 17 (or whatever--I lost count).

Seriously, what is it with these guys that they can't allow the hero to get the girl? But they don't have the balls to get rid of her in a normal way and have to re-write the timeline to get her gone.

Do they really think people love Wonder Woman? They hold her up as part of some sort of Trinity with Batman and Superman. But people adore Superman and Batman. They're timeless. Wonder Woman is stuck in the 1940s. They try to update her, and it never works. People just don't care about her the way they do about Batman or Superman. It's not a gender thing. Batman is the pinnacle of human perfection. Superman is the ideal we can strive to. Together, Batman and Superman are like yin and yang--opposites in most regards, but the same where it counts, in their hearts. Whereas Wonder Woman is still some loony's bondage fantasy, saddled with some of the most fucking stupid powers in comic book history, powers that they seem unwilling to part with. Get rid of the invisible jet, get rid of the lasso of truth, get rid of her fucking magic girdle, and then we'll talk.

An awful lot of creators whose work I adore have done Wonder Woman. (Mind out of the gutter!) Guys like John Byrne and George Perez. But the only time I ever gave have a shit was on the Justice League cartoon, where both she and the equally dumb Hawkgirl were both obsessive warrior women, two characters that should have clashed but were different enough to complement one another.

DC doesn't get it with female characters. Batgirl, Batwoman, Supergirl, Power Girl, Arrowette/Artemis--all derivative of better male superheroes. Wonder Woman--ridiculously lame. Wonder Girl--lame and derivative. Then there are a legion who are defined by their relationships with male characters; this isn't all women who are in relationships with male characters, but it's not too tough to see a difference between Starfire, who's rudderless without Nightwing, and Raven, who isn't. (Harley Quinn is the only one I can think of to fit into the last category who doesn't suck, simply because her relationship is so bizarre.)

[anarky]

Four Green Lantern books. Wow. Just, wow.

Green Lantern: This one should be self-explanatory.

The New Guardians: Because these guys haven't bombed every time we've seen them. Now led by Kyle Rayner!

Red Lanterns: Taste the rainbow!

Green Lantern Corps: Starring John and Guy.

Looking less like a full reboot than a new Crisis on Infinite Earths. Why keep GL and fuck with Superman? Oh, yeah, Geoff Johns' man-crush on GL.

[jjreason]

It's so bizarre I'm almost ready for them to declare it's all been a hoax... except it's not April 1st.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Is it just me, or is Geoff Johns becoming the worst kind of Prima donna diva? All this Chief Creative Officer power is going to his head.

Plus, as more titles get rolled out, it's like I'm watching them dig through the rubble of a collapsed building, pulling more dead bodies out. It's sick and gruesome, but I can't look away.

[anarky]

It looks like that to me, and I'm essentially an outsider at this point.

It looks like the books that will be relatively unscathed are Green Lantern (written by Chief Creative Officer Geoff Johns) and Batman (written by Grant Morrison, whom I honestly think Co-Publisher Dan Didio is blowing). (I'm not including books less than a year old in this; they likely were launched in anticipation of what's coming.)

The rest are being severely retconned (and they insist we don't say "reboot," even though I see nothing to indicate it's not) with mediocre costumes designed by Co-Publisher Jim Lee, whose co-conspirator on Heroes Reborn, Bob Harras, is now Editor in Chief.

I know the higher-ups are supposed to be the creative guidance of the company, but having what boils down to two people redesigning the entire universe (aside from one book by a guy the other Co-Publisher would never allow anyone to edit, much less tell his ideas are wrong for the title) in such a large universe, created by so many people, reeks of something.

[vynsane]

man, one could really parallel the ineptitude of the 'big two' comic publishers to the ineptitude of the 'big two' political parties... or the 'big two' anything else, really - when it comes down to it, the largest two competitors in any realm of business are either the worst at their jobs or at least so ingrained in their own bullshit that they can't evolve, but somehow still maintain the lion's share of the rewards while the rest of the options languish in relative obscurity, only known/loved by a devout minority. Dark Horse. Green Party. RC Cola. Linux.

stepping back from it, it appears comic readers have the most quality choices amongst the "also rans" than any other facet of society. yet we bitch that superman is getting a collar on his uniform.

[anarky]

How many superhero alternatives are there, who are willing to stick with a hero long-term and have any level of exposure? On TV, there's Ben 10, which I don't watch. Everything else seems to reboot every three years or so. Video games and movies have long delays in between installments. From other publishers, there's Spawn, Savage Dragon, and Invincible from Image; Witchblade from whoever owns Top Cow (isn't it technically Image, but distributed by Marvel, or something?); sort of Hellboy from Dark Horse; and, uh, I think that's it. I could throw out a laundry list of other publishers and titles, but very little that seems to stick, and that the publishers have enough faith in to stick with.

[jjreason]

And you know what my first thought about all those smaller heroes you brought up was? That shit's all worn out. How stupid is that? If they can take Batman from huge rolling nickles to Dark Knight, surely there's more to read about those heroes (half of which I've never even exposed myself to, making my initial thought on the group even more bizarre. I truly am a negative bitch).

[Rollo Tomassi]

That's kinda how I feel about a lot of them as well. It all seems so derivative of stuff already out there. I know many people rave about Invincible, but I just see part Spidey, part Superman, blend well, serve.
I could pick it up some day and be totally offbase and think its awesome, but the premise just doesn't hook me.
And part of it is because many of these 'creators' are guys that have cut their teeth on the Big 2's properties, and then go off and write the same stuff on their own stuff.

[jjreason]

So the frenzy is working on me. I've created my comixology ID and have gone so far as to at least start browsing some digital titles. I'm thinking of getting flashpoint #1 in the digital format just to have a look at how it lays out on Jodi's ipod touch & the regular computer as we don't have a tablet or e-reader of any variety yet. I have a concern over the ease with which I could rack up my mastercard bill, at $2.99 per issue it would NOT take long to be up into the hundreds of dollars... for comics that don't really exist (or do they????).

Anyone else considering dabbling in digital?

[vynsane]

How many superhero alternatives are there, who are willing to stick with a hero long-term and have any level of exposure? On TV, there's Ben 10, which I don't watch. Everything else seems to reboot every three years or so. Video games and movies have long delays in between installments. From other publishers, there's Spawn, Savage Dragon, and Invincible from Image; Witchblade from whoever owns Top Cow (isn't it technically Image, but distributed by Marvel, or something?); sort of Hellboy from Dark Horse; and, uh, I think that's it. I could throw out a laundry list of other publishers and titles, but very little that seems to stick, and that the publishers have enough faith in to stick with.

i've said it before and i'll say it again, larger and more bold this time, so it sticks:

ATOMIC FUCKING ROBO!!! READ IT!!!

part of the problem, though, is the inbred nature of most comic fans. most won't try anything new, like hitler said up there in that video.

And you know what my first thought about all those smaller heroes you brought up was? That shit's all worn out.

invincible and hellboy are still really, really strong. in fact, hellboy has branched out into a long-running BPRD series, and now we've also had inter-related titles 'witchfinder' about a victorian-era monster hunter and 'baltimore' which i'm not sure what it's about (something something vampires something) because i've only read the first issue thus far (i've been busy).

That's kinda how I feel about a lot of them as well. It all seems so derivative of stuff already out there. I know many people rave about Invincible, but I just see part Spidey, part Superman, blend well, serve.
I could pick it up some day and be totally offbase and think its awesome, but the premise just doesn't hook me.

it's so much more than that, but yes - it does play with the tropes of both of those properties, but really turns them on their ear.

And part of it is because many of these 'creators' are guys that have cut their teeth on the Big 2's properties, and then go off and write the same stuff on their own stuff.

many, but not all - kirkman started with creator-owned properties and then did some stuff for marvel. but his best stuff is his creator-owned stuff.

i also consider vertigo to not be part of the 'big two' even though it's a DC imprint. it's less editor mandate, more independent.

[anarky]

Unfortunately, I left off Atomic Robo on purpose. I wish it had a wider audience, but it's still a niche book. Most comic shops I've been into since it started don't carry it at all. No matter how good it is, if the distribution channels (here being the stores, not the actual distributor) doesn't carry it, it can't have widespread exposure unless they want to pour money (probably more than they have) into promoting it.

Back to DC, it's laughable that they finally listened to people complaining about the way women dress but missed the point. "All women wear pants now! Even Black Canary! But they show off their cleavage!!"

[vynsane]

Unfortunately, I left off Atomic Robo on purpose. I wish it had a wider audience, but it's still a niche book. Most comic shops I've been into since it started don't carry it at all. No matter how good it is, if the distribution channels (here being the stores, not the actual distributor) doesn't carry it, it can't have widespread exposure unless they want to pour money (probably more than they have) into promoting it.

i understand that totally, but it can only gain exposure though activism right now. in fact, this is a book that can REALLY profit via the digital method, bypassing the distribution issue entirely. that said, i told the owner of the shop i frequent on long island about the book, he checked it out and it became one of his all-time favorites.

[jjreason]

First thing I downloaded after comixology on the ipod was the fcbd atomic robo issues. the first one was fine but not hilarious, I'll read the 2nd one tonight.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Lets Update this monster. If you consider mainstay titles like Superman, Action, Teen Titans, etc haven't been officially "announced" but are most likely on the roster, there are relatively few open slots left. EDIT And then there were nine.

1. Detective. By Tony Daniel
2. Action
3. Superman
4. Batman. By Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo
5. Wonder Woman. By Azzarello and Cliff Chaing.
6. Flash. By Manapul.
7. Green Lantern. By Johns and Mahnke.
8. Justice League. By Johns and Lee.
9. Birds of Prey. By Duane Swierczynski and Jesus Saiz.
10. Aquaman. By Johns and Ivan Reis.
11. Brave and The Bold(?) Green Arrow. By Krul and Jurgens.
12. Blue Beetle(?) Mr. Terrific. By Wallace and Robinson.
13. Booster Gold(?) DCU Presents. By Jenkins and Bernard Chang.
14. Captain Atom.(?) By Krul and Freddie Williams II.
15. Demon Knights. By Paul Cornell and
16. Doom Patrol (?) JL Dark. By Peter Milligan and
17. Firestorm(?) By Simone, VanSciver and Yidiray Cinar.
18. Green Lantern Corps. and/or Guy Gardner(?) By Tomasi and
19. Swamp Thing. By Snyder and Yanick Paquette.
20. Savage Hawkman.Robinson is writing this one. By Tony Daniel and Philip Tan
21. Infinity Inc. (?) Frankenstein, Agent of SHADE. By Jeff Lemire and
22. Justice League International (they announced this one at the end of JL:Gen Lost) By Jurgens and Aaron Lopresti.
23. Justice Society America. EDIT. This one's been confirmed as well.
24. Animal Man. By Jeff Lemire and
25. Manhunter(?) Voodoo. By Ron Marz and Sam Basri.
26. Martian Manhunter(?) Ressurection Man. By DnA and Fernando Dagnino.
27. Red Hood and the Outsiders(?)laws. By Scott Lobdell and Ken Rocafort.
28. PlasticMan(?) I Vampire. By Josh Fialkov and Andrea Sorrentino.
29. PowerGirl(?)Hawk and Dove. By Sterling Gates and OH FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THATS FUCKING HOLY...NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
30. Question(?) Static Shock. By John Rozum and Scott McDaniel.
31. Legion Lost. By Fabian and Pete Woods.
32. Suicide Squad (?) Legion of Super Heroes. By Levitz and Protela. Ninth times the charm fellas!!
33. Starman(?)
34. Secret Six (?)
35. Teen Titans. By Scott Lobdell and Brett Booth. And it looks like the biggest continuity assfuck goes to Tim Drake, and the rest of the Titans.
36. Zatanna(?)
37. Supergirl(??)
38. Superboy(??)
39. Deathstroke(??)
40. Robin(??)
41. Catwoman(??) By Judd Winick and Guillem March.
42. Joker(???)
43. Nightwing(???). By Kyle Higgins and Eddy Barrows.
44. A Third Green Lantern book New Guardians.
45. A Third Superman book
46. A Third Batman book. Batman and Robin. By Tomasi and Gleason
47. A Fourth Batman book We'll just call this one the Batgirl title with Babs. By Simone and Ardian Syaf.
48. A Fifth Batman book The Dark Knight. By Finch and bwahahhaha...this'll come out twice a year.
49. A Sixth Batman book Batwoman. By JH Williams III and Amy Reeder. uhhuh. Sure.
50.A Seventh Batman book Bat-Wing. uhhh? Who? By Winick and Ben Oliver.
51. An Eighth Batman book Red Lanterns. By Milligan.
52. Who's Who